Sunday, February 13, 2011

Cure EM (Erythromelalgia)

So as I mentioned in a previous post, my wife (Tracey) has Erythromelagia (EM for short). I am going to try and sum up this condition and how it has affected our lives in as short of a blurb as I can. Here it goes...

EM Flare

This condition began to show up around May of 2010 when my wife's feet would randomly swell, turn red, get hot to the touch and become extremely painful. She describes it as being lit on fire. It is actually considered one of the most painful conditions out there. It is also very rare, which is why we brought the diagnosis to our primary care doctor. And for us it was just one more problem on a long list of things that had happened to Tracey's health over the past few years.

At first the flares were fairly infrequent, and she mostly noticed them when it was pretty warm out or when she had been walking for a while. Over the past 10 months, EM has taken control of every part of our lives. Tracey now has to work from home, she leaves the house only to go to the doctor, the house is kept at exactly 66 degrees, and a fan blows on her feet whenever she has a flare. The condition also affects her hands, and the flares have become more and more frequent. We have been trying many things and seeing a bunch of doctors over the last few months. So far nothing has worked.

This post is to inform everyone that I have not and will not give up on finding something that will cure this horrible disease. My goal is to keep this blog as a journal of what we have tried, what we are currently trying and what we will try in the hopes that something will not only fix Tracey, but will help someone else dealing with this disease. I plan to use this blog to get organized in this fight.

Coming next: what we have done, what we're starting to do, and our future options to try and fix this...

Do you know anyone that is struggling with burning, swollen and painful feet or hands? Have they heard of Erythromelalgia? If you have EM, what have you tried and has anything worked for you? 

115 comments:

  1. I haven't been diagnosed yet, but this is the closest thing to what I can describe that I have. Have done tons of tests and no doctor could figure it out.

    My neurologist at the time of my last appointment (3 years ago) had never heard of the disease. I feel for your wife. No one understands it. For me, it's when I stand or do any vigorous exercise. It affects my feet mainly, they become hot, red and burn. I have found a lot of the same results from low sodium, not eating a big meal, or not consuming anything with a stimulant. I wish they could understand this more. It is limiting in what people can do and no one really gets the disease. It's like "hey, my feet don't work properly." Not the same as "oh I have back problems.".

    So anyway yeah, I am trying to figure out myself what would help. Getting out of the heat is definitely a plus. But nothing cures it or takes away the pain. My best guess as to what causes it is venous insufficiency, or lack of the valves to pump the blood back up properly to the heart. Or a metabolic problem. Either way I am making an appointment to see a vascular specialist to see if they can help.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thanks for the comment. Yea we actually brought the diagnosis to her primary care Dr who was like, "yup that sounds like it". Let us know if you get any new info from your vascular specialist. Our didn't have anything new for us, but it was over a year ago that she went there.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I actually have been going back and forth about seeing a vascular specialist for the same reason as what happened to you. Just sick of "can't help you" type of responses. I've also considered seeing an endocrinologist or some sort of metabolic centered specialist. Kinda fits in with the diet thing too. I will email you guys with any info.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hello Matt!. I´ve diagnosed with Erythromelalgia and also Raynaud´s disease. So, I know exactly how it feels like to live with these syndroms. My doctor told me that there´s no cure so far but a good dosis of magnesium could help. So, you should ask to your wife´s doctor. I´ve been trying it for some months an at least I noticed some relief. I hope it helps you guys!. Take care and good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi, I woke up yesterday morning with these symptoms and hasnt gone away but only for a few hrs at at time. It is probably the most uncomfortable thing I have ever experienced thus far in life I am 30 yrs old avg weight excersice occasionally and eat fairly healthy... no coffee and little alcohol consumption. I already have no faith in the western medical community so I am gooing totry alternative natural remedies...wish me luck if I have any progress I will post it asap Thanks Matt for your mission....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did you try to improve your pH? Using ionized water can be a very good step toward success. Find more on www.waterionizerforyou.com, www.kangendemo.com A friend of mine improved her condition 90% using alkaline water (she forgot about the time she was sleeping with a fun to her feet). Contact me if you want more information. It is hope

      Delete
  6. @Lightunfolds Yes please post if anything works for you! We are currently trying some diets (we've tried the PH Miracle and that seemed to at least reduce her flaring, and we are about to start trying Eating Primal (Paleo Diet)...so I will post if it seems to help!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi! I have the same symptoms in my hands and feet - it started when I was sixteen or so. Thankfully, it's not very painful all of the time. Anyway, I've found that gluten and alcohol are extremely inflammatory for me! I highly recommend a vegan, gluten-free diet - heavy on raw foods. Juicing would be a great thing to try as well! Hope that helps!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks! I agree that diet has a huge affect on this condition. I really want to delve deeper into foods and other things that cause inflammation.

      Delete
  8. Hi Matt,
    So sorry to hear about your wife. There are lots of medications and treatments that can help EM. I have never heard of any cures, at least not yet. There is a great support group that your wife and you might want to join for support at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EM/ and an organization that is funding EM research called The Erythromelalgia Association aka TEA at www.erythromelalgia.org. Hope you find some relief for your wife.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, we have visited both those sites. Sadly as far as we can find you are correct in saying that while there are some things that seem to make it "slightly" more bearable, we have not found a cure yet...still looking....

      Delete
  9. hola Matt , tengo una amiga con ese sintoma , cualquier ayuda lo informare.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lamentablemente no tengo ninguna respuesta para esta condición. Hemos encontrado que una dieta muy muy saludable parece ayudar un poco, junto con eliminar diferentes causantes de bengalas (diferentes por persona). Vamos a probar algo llamado la terapia Gerson en un futuro cercano... todo lo que podemos hacer es intentar. Busque aquí algunas otras resources...http://www.project-matt.com/p/erythromelalgia-links.html

      Sadly I don't have any answers for this condition. We have found that a very very healthy diet seems to help somewhat, along with eliminating different that cause flares (different by person). We are going to try something called the Gerson therapy in the near future...all we can do is try. Look here for some other resources...http://www.project-matt.com/p/erythromelalgia-links.html

      Delete
    2. *Eliminating different foods. Wish I could be of more help! Believe me if I find something I will be screaming it from the roof tops!

      Delete
  10. Hi! I have/had the same symptoms for a while. It started a few months ago after dental procedure. I've read this can be related to mercury toxicity. Anyway, I began taking a magnesium complex "magnesium ok" and I didnt' remember the EM any longer. Now I stopped and everything is coming back.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Weve heard good and bad things about Magnisium. Some people it seems to essentially cure, others it seems to make worse...so we are being careful with it.

      Delete
  11. This site is very interesting : http://www.herbs2000.com/disorders/feet_burning.htm

    ReplyDelete
  12. Make paste with aloe Vera (99% pure) and crushed charcoal tablets, then applied it on the foot before going to bed. I hope that will help.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Believe it or not, communications companies use harmful signals (that were blindly ok'd by the FCC) for wireless devices that cover the whole United States. These signals resonate the same vibration as our DNA and autonomic nervous systems. Eventually, the protective coating gets worn-off our nerve endings and pain begins (or the genetic condition gets bothered by the signals). I believe the condition is genetic, but outside sources bring it out. I use Gabapentin and other drugs/natural and prescribed that do very little because the main cause will always be there. There is only temporary relief (i.e. - eating ginger, broccoli, etc.) that help a little.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I've been going back and forth to doctors for several months. Had skin biopsies, etc. I originally had problems with my feet turning bright red and burning when it was warm outside and/or I was standing for long periods. Recently I've started with the burning hands and arms (up to my elbows) my skin swells and is hot to the touch. I see my dermatologist again in two days. I have just read that Diltiazem seems to help. The funny thing is that just before the flare up of my hands and arms I was taken off Diltiazen (was taking for high blood pressure). I'll let the Dr. know and see what he thinks. Thanks for the site. I hope someone figures this out. It is so painful and makes it difficult to sleep and even worse to work.

    ReplyDelete
  15. My 7year old daughter was diagnosed with EM about 3 months ago after 4 1/2 years of pain, only thing is she has it in her genital area:( currently trying gabapentin for relief, so far its doing little to help her, we live in australia and her dr's dont know alot about it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sadly, few Dr's know about it, we are "pleasantly" surprised when a doctor has even heard of it...

      Delete
    2. Hi. My daughter just turned 5 years old and she has that crazy disease since she's 2 and a haft. We tried so many things and nothing seems to be working on her. She also a disease name Paroxysmal extreme pain disorder. Here in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, it's the same thing. Doctors dont know about it. We are currently trying Tegretol. Last year, she took Gabapentin. Her to, it is in her genital area, her feet, her legs and her hands. She's not doing well on the psychologial side. She's very anxious, she's scared to get an episode.She is now hurting her self because she's suffering alot. School next september... I don't know at this stage if she will be able to go... :(

      Delete
    3. I have what your daughter has, as well as EM. When it is in the feminine regions it is called Vulvodynia. There are a few good books on treating it but you will have better luck looking up Vulvodynia where your daughter is concerned.

      Delete
    4. She has been treated for Vulvodynia a number of times and nothing has worked, she has been diagnosed with Vulva Erythromelalgia, CRPS and Hypermobility. Unfortunately the EM is starting to move to other areas in her body.

      Delete
  16. Matt, has your wife had the immunoglobulin treatment? I've only been recently diagnosed, but have had symptoms for four years. I also have MS, TN, and migraine.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She has not tried it, but we have heard about it. Have you tried the immunoglobulin treatment?

      Delete
  17. No doubt you've heard THIS a thousand times, but the guy who made the documentary had a really awful and rare skin condition too. His regimen cured him. HERE is his blog.

    It isn't just about weight loss. It really helps people with scary conditions.

    Good luck.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have watched it, and we actually had some success (not a ton, but some) with a form of juice fast...we may try it again sometime! Thanks!

      Delete
  18. Matt, has your wife had her calcium level tested and was it high? I've had what I think is EM for years. Finally diagnosed with hyperparathyroidism, indicated by calcium over 10.1 on a lab (although there can be anomalies and it can bounce). Had the overactive parathyroids removed and am FINALLY seeing some improvement. I have had to be mostly off my feet for 2 1/2 years. I had less pain than your wife seems to, but I did have bleeding in the toes, redness, burning, etc. It affects both feet equally.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think she has, but not 100% sure. I will look into it for sure! Thanks!

      Delete
    2. Tapirgal...what is the type of measurement that the 10.1 was based off of?

      Delete
  19. Matt, when calcium metabolism is off, it affects, nerves, muscles and bones. None of my docs knew EM, but I found the symptoms online. They could not say it WASN'T that. Two docs hit on the idea that nerves were sending the wrong signals to the feet. Long, twisted story, but my supposed EM got way worse after I overtaxed myself into a "fibromyalgia breakdown" 2 1/2 years ago. I had a lot of fibro symptoms, but did not recover the same as in the past, so it didn't really seem like fibro, and now the complication with the feet. With new insurance and a new doc (endocrinologist) he recognized high calcium on a standard, cheap blood test as being the indicator for primary hyperparathyroidism. Ironically, he did not connect the feet with this disease, but I did, and I believe I am right. (Messed up calcium, calcium has to be in range for the nervous system to be right, two specialists independently thought my nervous system was giving wrong messages to the blood vessels in my feet, but one ascribed it to potassium -which turned out to be fine- and the other to fibromyalgia.) A little more time will tell a lot. Even today I saw more improvement. There is good reading at parathyroid.com, although they do not mention EM directly, but you will see how many seemingly unrelated diseases are actually caused by high calcium and how many are cured or made better when this is fixed. You will also see that many docs are clueless about the implications of high calcium. If your wife's test comes back ANY amount over 10.1, or even 10 and your doc does't get that it's a problem, check out the several closed parathyroid groups on Facebook. You will get a lot of support and great info. And get as many "second" opinions as you need. I wish you both the best. I hope this will be helpful.

    ReplyDelete
  20. By the way, I forgot to mention that in my group on FB of 200+ people, 3 to 5 of them have similar foot symptoms, none progressed as far as mine. Have not kept up that discussion, as we all have a lot of symptoms and are finding our way through pre- and post-surgery, but interesting to see the number in a group that size who all had high calcium.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I was recently diagnosed by a dermatologist. He had never seen it, but had heard of it. He did some research, and said there was no known cure. He suggested I take an aspirin a day, but that probably wouldn't help. He also said that elevating hands and feet helps some people, but not everyone. Keeping hands and feet cool also provides some relief, but for me, almost impossible to do. There is a national help group for this condition.
    Sorry to sound so negative. Mine started on my hands, and moved shortly to my feet. The average age of onset is 62, which is my age. According to the dermatologist, there is no known or proven cause, and little research done because it's too rare for drug companies to bother with. Needless to say, I'm not happy.

    ReplyDelete
  22. It's EM, a micro-vascular (peripherial) sensory nerve disorder that is also "centrally" mediated by the sympathetic nervous system. An intraepidermal nerve fiber density (IENFD), small fiber sensory nerve biopsy usually helps in diagnoses since most people with EM have small fiber sensory neuropathy. Also quantitative sensory testing is sometimes used(but only universities will do those type of tests). Many people with Erythromelalgia also have other issues. The Erythromelalgia Association, usually publishes a newsletter with updated information. Researchers at Yale have identified the molecular cause.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I was diagnosed with EM about 1.5 years ago. It's gotten worse and does control so much of my life. I just came across your blog and want to thank you for searching for a cure and commend you on your commitent to your wife. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the burning pain, etc. I can't seem to figure out what makes it get worse as it's gone past the hot weather stage. I put my feet in very cold water as it's the only thing that brings instant relief and helps it subside for a bit. I sleep with a cryo-ice pack at the botton of the bed near my feet which does help. I cannot sleep with the covers on now for well over a year. I haven't worn socks for the last two winters. I'm going to read some of the other posts and then will post again with the treatment(s) I've tried and am on. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for reading, I wish I had something that works to report, still trying.

      I have heard that using ice water, though it feels great, can do more harm than good, so I would be careful. I know that my wife has been very tempted to use it, but has managed to not...so far...

      Please let us know if you find anything that helps!

      Delete
    2. I have heard from a friend who has a colleague with this [and I think I have it too] that prostacyclins help the condition. I also have M.S.,but neurologically it does not fit a flare-up of this. I have had it nearly 2 years now and it is quite disabling. I cannot wear proper shoes, only sandals. I am 66 and would like to walk a lot, but cannot.I am in U.K.and understand that the centre over here which knows about it is Dundee [in Scotland]. I am seeing my GP this week and will get Calcium checked first.

      Delete
  24. Hi, Matt!

    My list of symptoms goes on and on--all began Summer of 2010. I'm a teacher in PA, 31, and sick of hearing the same "We do not know, but good luck!" excuses from doctors. I have been diagnosed with the following and all are in order of appearance:

    Migraines
    Interstitial Cystitis (Bladder inflammation)
    Muscle Pain
    Sore liver and spleen when pressed upon
    Burning toes, red--out of the shower, exercise, etc. (Now, all of the time.)
    A reddened nose and at times hands

    I've been told I have Lyme Disease (with indeterminate results) I've been on antibiotics for over a year and my bladder is getting better but now my feet are worse.

    I've been also experimenting with juicing and detoxing. (Read "CLEAN" and following Dr. Schulze's products...)

    I'm all out here on my own, so any other information from you guys is certainly a help, and of course if I can help in any way with info, please just ask!!!

    Even with supportive family and friends, this is the toughest thing I've ever done!

    Take care and many blessings!

    Maria

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Maria

      Dear Maria

      I am sorry for your condition. Cleansing is the first step in getting better. I share my experience in my website www.yourgracefulaging.com. They are there a few other ways to improve your health. Please read it and email me if you are interested in more information. When you have a rare disease is good to learn more and discuss with your doctor more alternatives. I am using everything what I described there and my life is much better. Blessings
      Aurica

      Delete
  25. It is frustrating hearing that over and over again for sure! My wife also used to get migraines and I feel that there is a connection...

    She was also told that, but a year on antibiotics did nothing...we don't think anyways...

    Have you connected on some of the facebook groups? (see my EM tab for some links)...

    I hope that one day we find something for this disease!

    Take care!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Matt,

      I am sorry for your wife and I am very proud of you. It is true, when you deal with a rare disease you have to fight for your health. I don’t take “no cure” as an answer. It is not cure but it is always HOPE. I have a large experience with a few diseases and I work hard to find a way to live better when the doctors said is no way to improve my condition. I am impressed with the results and I decide to put everything in a website to share my experience with everybody who needs help.
      Please go to www.yourgracefulaging.com and see if the information you will find there will help. You can email me any time if you are interested. I am sure your wife’s life will be improved if you follow the steps I did. Good Luck.
      Sincerely,Aurica

      Delete
    2. Aurica, do you have any input on this particular disease or are you just spamming for a link to your website?

      Delete
    3. Dear Lisa,

      No I don't spamming. A lot of people believe my interest is to make money, but my main interest is to help. To be sick is not fun, so the last think you want is to find some untrue information. I never will do that. It is true, the Negative Ion Clothing is selling on MLM but you can become a distributor once you see the benefits of product. I help a friend with erythromelalgia (as I mention in website) and her life is much easier. She did not invest a lot, but she continues to use the knee support and the wrist band every day and the burning is gone, the fan is not longer used. She continue to take gabapentin, it is not like you don't have to work with your doctor but it is helping. Please read my website. Www.yourgracefulaging.com. My desire is to inform people it is a way to live easier, not to convince. They are a lot of reference material on website, read, learn and decide. I am here to help with more information if you need.
      Please take your time and learn how changing your life style will help to improve your health. You can find grat resources on my website. I am here to ask any question you may have.
      Sincerely,
      Aurica

      Delete
  26. You should all get your serum Calcium and Parathyroid hormone levls checked. Headaches are apparently very common in people with hyperparathyroidism.

    ReplyDelete
  27. My mom has this. For years she had just "hot feet" and always had to sleep with them poking out of the bedcovers.
    What we believed were Candida outbreaks on different areas on her body was probably Erythromelalgia, but it took years to get this diagnosis.
    Currently, she has extremely painful outbreaks almost continuously on her feet and hands. She can't put her hands or feet in hot water so showering is difficult. Hands too painful to drive a car, can't hardly walk.
    We have searched everywhere and have not had any luck with anything we found.
    She has always taken high quality magnesium supplements and drinks a massive green smoothie every day with a great array of natural supplements.
    I feel so sorry for the children above that have this particularly nasty condition.

    ReplyDelete
  28. hi Matt thanks for this site! am doing some research too to help myself. am in UK. have had Raynauds (tho not too severe) as long as can remember, developed EM when your wife did, as far as can tell developed after vein injections about 10 yrs ago(she did my feet too about which i as not happy at the time); developed 'glowy' feet at night shortly after. injector may have damaged nerves but i think i had the propensity to develop the condition with poor circulation problems and developed full EM when became less active. i do think the calcium link seems feasible, have been taking Mg more and more and that kind of balances excess calcium doesnt it? (along with other vitamins etc) funnily enough am prone to a type of IBS which is helped by Mg. there's a lot out there by a Dr Cohen who got a 90% cure on himself. Mg helped him but also a lot of other things. i am not keen on drug taking so stopped short of going down his route but i maybe need to revisit. what seems to help me (and they are mainly based on diet): Magnesium (Mg) - also u can get some from making an epsom salt spray to spray diectly onto the feet etc ; eating smaller meals; not eating too late at night; keeping surrounding temperature coolish; trying to keep low level regular exercise (if i have a flare in my feet if i can keep moving it reduces it dramatically - the moment i stop it is back again); keeping blood sugar lowish/constant; eating lots of good fats; not too much protein. i think gluten doesnt help either - looking at this in relation to bursitis which developed around the same time. this is all an ongoing journey of discovery ....the human body is SO complex! lots more to say but dont want to bore u! Linda

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Believe me nothing you are saying is a bore, anything that can potentially help. Those are some good idea's, some of them we've tried, some I've theorized on but have not tried yet...mainly the link between metabolism (smaller meals) and not eating late at night. We have a bad habit of eating very late at night, thanks to me working in a restaurant!

      Delete
  29. After seeing three doctors including a Rheumatologist- the Rheumatologist believes it is nerve related in my case so he prescribed me Gralise (a form of gabapentin) in a low dose. This medicine is used for treating nerve pain for those who have nerve pain left over from Shingles (I've never had them before). It has helped my red hands and feet just in the last 5 days since I started talking it. They don't get as red and the frequency has lessoned by about 1/2. He said it would help my Fibromyalgia pain as well and it has. Just thought I'd pass this info along. I am hoping to up my dosage on the medicine once my body gets used to it and maybe it will take the problem away altogether.

    ReplyDelete
  30. First of all, thank you for your website/blog. After going to six or more different doctors, I finally diagnosed myself by reading your blog. It's been a very frustrating few years for me and the summer time is always the worst. I am going to continue to stay updated on your blog as well as looking into some of the suggestions mentioned above. This is how we get the word out, peeps! Thanks everyone for giving their comments. When all else fails, I will turn to prayer. ;o)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, I'm glad it helped you figure out what was going on. We do need to get word out so we can figure this thing out!

      Delete
  31. Hello, I just finished allergy testing which produced very little results. I do not have trouble with my feet. It is only my hands, they tingle and get very hot and now there is pain. The first episode only lasted a couple of days at Christmas time. Went to a hospital and they said I had an allergic reaction to something. Then saw other doctors in January, was tried on Gabapentin (used on patients with nerve pain). Has worked really well. I just had another flareup this week after my allergy testing. My dermatologist said it might be erythromelagia, first time I have heard of it so I am trying to find out as much as I can. Cool cloths or even an icepack seems to work for awhile. I have neck issues, is it possible that this is related. I go to my family doctor next week, I will have lots of questions for him and hopefully I can get recommended to someone that will help. I have a feeling this is only the beginning. I will stay tuned to your sie. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Be careful with the ice packs, from everything my wife and I have read, they can do more damage to your feet then they are worth, no matter how tempting they can be. My wife is on Gabapentin as well and it does seem to offer at least some relief. Hopefully we can all find something that will help.

      Delete
  32. All of these posts are so wonderful. Matt you are doing such a great job with your website. I feel for your wife. She is lucky to have you. I am 45 years old and I have chronic fatigue syndrome since i was 19 years old. Since then I have collected many more ailments. I have fibromyalgia, Raynauds,Erythromelagia, ciliac disease. I have found I'm also allergic to whey. I have not been diagnosed with Erythromelagia yet but I know thats what it is. I've recently decided to file for disability. I know its going to be a long process. I'm chemical sensitive so I don't do well with medicine. I am seeing a naturalpathic dr. now for about a year. In this process I've discovered my Vitamin D is low, my estrogin, progesterone, testosterone, and cortisol is low certain times of the day. I believe this plays a roll in this some how. Since my naturpathic DR has never heard of Erythromelagia she doesn't have anything to go by. I'm taking magnesium in the evening before bed, that helps me with sleeping and being calm. If anybody has any idea how I should go about filing for SS using my naturpathic dr. please let me know. Most of the time they like to see medical DR's. Thank you for all the information. I will be praying for all those who suffer with this and their families. God Bless

    ReplyDelete
  33. hi Matt i'm presently more focused on keep blood sugar levels lower which seems to help more than anything unless i flare thro exercise. interestingly chronic high blood sugar causes neuropathy which as i understand it is usually held to be the general EM cause,(by whatever route), along with microvascular neuropathy. Lin

    ReplyDelete
  34. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  35. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  36. hi Matt just discovered your blog this morning!!I have have this disease for about 28 years!Just diognosed in the last year! omg ! finally found people that are suffering the same pain. Some days I just do not want to go on!!All the info on your blog I have tryed with not much inprovement.I"m very sensitive to drugs and they do't seem to work anyway!!I will keep trying !! working with a herbalist right now! have tryed every type of Dr. you can think of!!thanks so much for the info!! tracy creston bc canada

    ReplyDelete
  37. I have had EM my whole life. I am 17 years old, and still in High School. My attacks literally make me feel like I am on fire. The burning, swollen, excruciating pain occurs almost every twenty minutes. The attacks/flares mostly happen in my hands, feet, face, and recently, my arms and legs. I was misdiagnosed with Lupus, Raynaud's disease, and Sceleroderma. Finally I was diagnosed with EM about two months ago. I've tried literally everything. Honestly, this is the most painful disease.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Lin> I have wondered myself about the connection between blood sugar (glucose spikes) and flares...I have no idea if there is one...

    Sadly most of the things that I have posted about have done little more than help a bit, maybe..... it can become very frustrating to say the least.

    Hopefully the community of people can come up with something someday soon!

    ReplyDelete
  39. My sister-in-law Tracy Cartwright suffered from EM back in the 1990's and she was eventually cured. If you want more info on it, please e-mail me at rmeister@dolphinencounters.com. My name is Robert Meister.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is there a reason you are unable to share this magic cure here?

      Delete
    2. He/she is trying to get your email address for some reason.
      If it were credible information to help all the suffers here ( including myself) I would think a honest person would simply share a cure".
      Don't email this person folks !!!!!

      Delete
  40. Hi Matt, I've had EM for many years. At first I was told is was Raynaud's disease. I haven't had much luck in finding the right treatment. I did have some relief with cymbalta but I had to stop taking it did to side effects.( I had a lot of fatigue and weight gain.) Now I just use pain meds add needed at night. I have found that typical diclofenac does give me some relief, especially at night. EM is so frustrating but I refuse to give in and lose hope. Thank you for your blog. Good luck on finding answers to the "plague of red toes" ( that's what my kids call it)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the response. We are actually starting another detox now, based the "Detox Miracle Sourcebook", someone on the EM Facebook page posted that it was helping them so we are giving it a try... I will be sure to keep everyone posted on whether it works or not!

      Delete
  41. hi Matt just discovered your blog
    . After years of suffering and been told by doctors they could find nothingwrong
    Nerve conduction tests etc I went his year to a new doctor and said I really did need help as the pain in hands and feet were swelling beyond belief.I was sent to Rhumetology clinic had blood tests ,nerve conduction tests once again myself knowing that these tests would show nothing.(they didn't
    As the Doctor was giving me the results, my hands and feet started to swell ,bright red, extremly hot which the doctor could see for herself that what I had been telling doctors for years was not a figment of my imagination but real My next appt she gave me the diagnosis of EM, plus a print off giving details of cure ( which was very little diffrence to what I had been doing ) and symptoms of this EM Was prescribed a drug that made the symptoms worse came off it .Was discharged .
    I still suffer .I stay indoors with fans and windows open, ice packs at the ready
    It makes me feel so ill does anyone else say this tlike attacks.
    Am due for my annual check up am going with an open mind that maybe my own doctor as done a little homework on this crippling EM as she had never heard of it ,and can offer me some form of relief... wish me luck....

    ReplyDelete
  42. Good luck! Let us know if they find anything new!

    ReplyDelete
  43. ((( This has REALLY helped me )))

    "I too am a sufferer from this terrible, terrible, terrible disease, or whatever the heck it is".
    I want to itch my fingers to the bones at times !!!! I also get it between my toes, top of my feet, and up both ankles". I went to the doctors the first 4 times and all he did was prescribe some cream. You're all right', the doctors haven't a clue on this stuff !!!
    I get mine mostly in hot weather too, but I also have had it flare up during cold winters.
    The last few times it came back, I just used this over the counter cream called Hydrocortisone 1%, made by Top Care and sold at Giant Eagle stores. I decided I was not going to the doctors anymore because this cream has same stuff in it as he prescribed me. Before applying it, 4 times times a day, I would wash all areas with a cool rag, then I'd use apple cider vinegar soaked on a rag , ( and I mean soaked ), and wash over all areas. Really soak that rag !!! It stings pretty god but it helps the itching. I'd then pat it dry, then apply this creme. It took about 3 weeks and it all cleared up.
    Now ~~~~~~~~
    here is what I just used recently did and it really helped me clear it up ( in about 10 days ) and helps the itching too.
    I first washed up all areas with very cold water and a "very mild" soap, being sure to rinse with a lot of very cold water ( I use the cold water because it helps stop the itch ~ don't use hot!!! ) to make sure all of the soap is off. Then I would do the vinegar thing exactly as I mentioned above. Alright now", are you still with me?" Good". Now here is the product that I apply after doing both the wash and the vinegar ~~~~~ I found this product at my local hardware store. Most should carry it. It is called O'Keeff's Working Hands. This stuff is great. I would apply it (not too heavy) all over the areas 4 times a day after doing my washes. You will know how much to apply as you use it, because this stuff goes a long way". Rub it in to your skin, not just gob it on and cover it. You want it worked into the skin. It comes in a green container with orange lettering. The container is in the shape of a chewing tobacco canister. Just slightly bigger than one of those I would say. Go buy it (about $7.00 ) and try it. It is the best thing I have used thus far to clear it up. I am sure my Erythromelalgia will return as it has since about 2006, but now I have something I know that is going to help the pain and itching and clear it up. If you are like me, you can almost tell when it is returning, because of the tingling sensation that begins under the skin. That's when you want to start using this product again immediately !!!.
    I'm not going to guarantee that it will work for your Erythromelalgia, but it sure works for mine, even though I know it will return sometime in the future". It's cheap and no doctor visit". Try it folks". But be sure to do the washes before applying it. "FOUR TIMES A DAY".
    I wish you all the best of luck at defeating this terrible thing. I know exactly how each and every one of you feel and what you are going through.
    Try it today. God Bless!
    Sincerely, Kevin L. Poe

    ReplyDelete
  44. Thanks for getting this blog set up. I, too, suffer from EM and idiopathic peripheral neuropathy. Thee two disorders often coincide with one another. Many doctors are lacking knowledge about EM and possible treatments. It is not surprising since some physicians may not see a case of EM over the course of a 20 to 30 year career. I read that only three people out of 100,000 have this dreaded diagnosis. I also soak my feet in cool water, not cold water, since it brings relief in 20 minutes, but you do have to be careful since you can damage skin tissue. It also can lead to a cyclical dependency. I have just started the high doses of magnesium. I read the informal research research of 15 patients,but the abstract does not state how long you take magnesium before seeing some improvement. Is it 5 days, 30 days or months? Does anyone know? You certainly have to be your own advocate with this disorder since it is so rare. Did anyone try the above home approach with the vinegar wash, soap and O'keefe's Working Hands? It sounds bizarre, but we all know those that suffer from EM are willing to try just about anything to find relief? Thanks for listening and responding to my questions. Dennis

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dennis,
      I take 250mg of magnesium daily. I'm wondering what your "high doses" are and did a doc put you on this or you? It has helped my migraines and tachycardia go away!

      Delete
  45. Matt,
    I feel for your wife! I am 30 and just diagnosed officially this summer. I diagnosed myself about 2 years ago. My mother has the same thing, but I do believe as I get older mine is becoming worse than hers. I have a daughter as well who is an infant and I already see her little hands and feet getting red and hot when her body temp goes up! It just breaks my heart to think she may have this same thing! I wonder if mine is worse than my moms, I worry hers will be worse than mine ;(
    My hands are a constant red color now. I am constantly being asked what is wrong with my hands. Luckily they are not always swollen and in pain, mainly when I'm cooking or when my body temp goes up. My feet started a few years ago. I sleep with no covers over my feet. I wear sandals.
    We eat almost all organic foods and non GMO foods as well. I am considering a detox along with possibly trying vegan to see if this helps. I notice when I eat a piece of pizza or something high in sodium my hands instantly flare up for no reason. I try to limit my sodium intake if I know I will be around people or doing any kind of walking/standing to try to decrease the pain. The neurologist diagnosed me with neuropathy in my right foot as well. He wants to do genetic testing but I don't know why since there isn't a cure, what is he going to do I wonder.
    I am scared out of my mind and worry every day about our trip we are planning to Disney World next June. We have to go in June for Star Wars weekend because my son is in love with Star Wars. I wish I was an inventor so I could invent shoes with a constant cooling gel to help me walk with less pain. I am so nervous about how I am going to get around the parks. I already told my husband to get me two days of tickets and him And my son another because I know I won't be able to walk after those 2 days. It's just sad to think like this and be worried all the time!
    I'm praying for a cure, or something that would decrease my flares! It's funny how my body doesn't have a normal temperature. I'm either freezing cold, or too hot! I wear short sleeves and sandals in the snow. I would rather be cold than in pain and all red!
    Keep up the good work! Sounds like even though it's. A rare condition, many people have it! I'm glad you feel your wife's pain! No one understands the pain of EM unless they have personally experienced it before! It's a pain that can't be described!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The freezing or cold thing is something that my Wife deals with as well, it makes an already frustrating condition even more so. I have always wondered if there was a way to perfectly regulate the air around EM sufferers if that would help.... thanks for everyones responses! Oh, and Star Wars is a great thing to be in love with, I am a Star Wars nut myself!

      Delete
    2. Jamie, How were you diagnosed?

      Delete
  46. Dennis, My wife tried magnesium and for a few weeks we thought it was helping and then it seemed to make it worse... something that apparently magnesium can do... I wish I had an answer to your question....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did your wife try to improve her pH. Using ionized water can be a very good step toward success. It is easier with water than with diet. Find more on www.waterionizerforyou.com, www.kangendemo.com A friend of mine improved her condition 90% using alkaline water (she forgot about the time she was sleeping with a fun to her feet)

      Delete
  47. I'm getting genetic testing done this week! I'm curious to see the results. My primary dr. Just increased my magnesium from 250 mg to 1000 mg a day. I haven't started yet, but I'm curious to see what Happens!

    ReplyDelete
  48. I have recently self diagnosed myself with this and am pretty upset that there doesn't seem to be a cure. :( I suffer the cold and heat too and am dreading the Australian summer coming up. It's going to be so uncomfortable. This might sound vain, but I find it hard to overcome feeling embarrassed about having such red feet. It's almost as though I could deal with the pain and heat if you couldn't see it. I just hate people commenting on them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Amanda,

      I am sorry for your condition and I would like to believe me when I am telling you it is hope for a better life. A friend of mine improved her condition 90% using alkaline water (she forgot about the time she was sleeping with a fun to her feet). Did you try to improve your pH. Using alkaline water? can be a very good step toward success. Find more on www.waterionizerforyou.com, www.kangendemo.com and ask for more information if you are interested. First step: AVOID SODA

      Delete
  49. I was diagnosed with EM several years ago by my dermatologist. My EM affects my hands more than anywhere else. This has proven to be difficult at times since I have had horrible flair ups of eczema. I have just recently tried to figure out what causes my EM flair ups in my hands because of them being so sporadic. Also I have given up hopes of ever being able to wear rings again. Any one else suffer from EM and eczema in the hands?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hi Guys

    I was just curious if any of you EM sufferers have ever suffered a strange pain in the side of your stomach? Kind of mid way down and to the right? Where your kidneys are? I have recently spoken to my family doctor and he said immediately that it's my kidneys (red feet and hands) and that I need to start taking folic acid. I got tested for the pains in my stomach and nothing came back and no one knew what it was but I have a strange feeling this may be related. Anyway, I start on a dose of folic acid today and in a few weeks time I will reassess my situation and let everyone know. My test will be heading out to have a few drinks and a dance (that's when my feet flare up the most) along with doing the dishes. haha. Take it easy guys! I will let you know how I go. Hopefully I have some good news!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Matt,
    Thanks for your work and for standing by your wife. I was wondering if anyone had EM symptoms from medication? I had athlete's foot last March and took a few medications (antibiotic, topical antifungal/steroid) for a couple months when I noticed my symptoms had changed. For the past 5 months I have not used anything on those areas ( tops of my toes and heels). I have had EM symptoms but only in those areas, unless I let them get really irritated then my feet and ankles turn red also. If anyone has experience with none inherited EM symptoms please let me know.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  52. Sorry I meant non inherited.

    ReplyDelete
  53. hello, thank you for uploading this, I have almost the same problem. Except I don't feel any of it. My feet swell up like crazy and get extremely red when it is hot outside, when i'm washing the dishes? (heat from the water) when I'm in the shower, my hands do this too and it's so embarrassing. I am 18 but when I was 12 I had this problem much worse and it would happen in the cold as well, and my feet would swell up and itch, and the itch was unbearable. Now I live in California so I don't get the itch but the redness and swelling is something I have to deal with everyday, at random times. I don't know if you would know anything about this, if it's the same thing your wife has? I haven't ever gotten a diagnosis.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Hi Matt,

    After 9 months of frustration allergy clinics, rheumatologists many visits to the GP , Casualty and finally a Neurologist my 12 year old Daughter has been diagnosed with this horrible disease. We get her out of Hospital where She has been under observation, Tomorrow for Christmas. The EM is relentless in her feet , hands , face and ears.

    So far She has tried , Magnesium , Aspirin, Tricyclic anti depressants , Oxycodone , Panadol, Tegretol, Changing her diet cutting out all dairy and caffeine. NO JOY.

    She is currently on a Potent mixture of Misoprostle, Pregablin and Tramadol . To me the situation seems to be only slightly better and she is very down. The Doctors have went to great lengths to explain the half life of the dugs meaning that when embarking on a course of specific drugs that it an take up to six weeks for them to take effect.

    They are talking about waiting a few weeks to see how the Pregabalin (Lyrica) works out. Without really understanding the Chronic pain She is suffering. Doctors can be somewhat patronising at times, and to be honest a couple of the nurses down right intolerable. Some of these Nurses have no place in a Pediatric ward and little understanding of the condition. A majority however are very understanding.

    I have being doing a lot of research , it appears that we may move on to duloxetine, once again a long half life , its not like taking an Advil... I am pushing for her to have a Lignocaine infusion and if She responds well to that moving to the Oral analog Mexetil. The IV is inherently risky and is done in the ICU, the Hospital being risk averse are really not keen on this procedure . Believe you me I am not taking this lightly , the thought of my Daughters heart stopping terrifies me to the core, however living like She is at the moment is no way to live.

    There is some the Hope from Teva and Xenon who appear to be developing a drug called XEN402 targeted directly at EM , I have written to them asking for more detail and what it would take to be part of a clinical trial.

    We will be attending some living with chronic pain workshops as there seems to be undercurrent of "She may just have to learn to live with it" . Like yourself I will leave no stone unturned to make her life better.

    I found the link below informative and I would urge you all to join the various associations and Facebook groups. Its good to know you are not alone. There is definitely HOPE

    http://medicationsense.com/articles/2012/emtreatment.html

    Dave




    ReplyDelete
  55. Hello
    Thank you Matt for this information blog you have here. The problem with the use of antidepressants (Dr Jay Cohen signals their possible efficiency) is the side effects and addiction. 5HTP (a natural antidepressant) taken before sleep might help. Begin with low dosage then up it if you find some relief, though insufficient. Caution: don't mix 5HTP with other antidepressants and ween off any if you want to try 5HTP.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I have been suffering with this disease for over 5 years and finally 2 years ago I went to a Dermatologist who had another patient with erythromelalgia and prescribed Trental to treat the symptoms. I take Trental along with Red Yeast Rice every day and have seen a dramatic improvement in symptoms. I rarely have any flare ups. Trental is a medication typically prescribed for patients with heart failure. It softens red blood cells which allows much improved blood circulation. Red Yeast Rice (a supplement found in most drug stores) also is used to improve blood circulation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Has Trental been taken off the market?

      Delete
  57. my mom's hands were looked at by a Radiation oncologist and she said they looked like erythromelalgia, a vascular disorder, which is known to be associated with bevacizumab (bet is associated with thrombotic disorder and thrombocytpenia)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21805405 Since it is a vascular disorder she recommended seeing a "benign" hematologist who will probably start treating for ASA.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I get intermittant flares of EM and when it's extremenly painful get significant relief using a TENS machine called the Rebuilder. The Rebuilder is specifically designed for Peripheral Neuropathy and there are some questionable claims on their website - that say it analyzes your individual nerve impulse and sends an opposing signal to correct the abberation. But I took mine apart and found a simple TENS unit that generates a 14 Hz cycle per second square wave. The Rebuilder is way over priced - about $500.00 and the components could probably be purchased for under $40.00. That being said, when my feet are bright red and painful I soak them in the dual component footbath (cool water) and drop the waterproof electrodes in the water for a 30 minute treatment. Afterward the feet are a normal color - so it helps improve circulation. It gives enough relief to get to sleep. Lidocaine patches and capsacium help alot too...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's interesting that you get relief from the footbath. You might be interested in this article on how to make a similar foot bath - a detox type thing. You can make it for next to nothing. Here is the link http://www.livepurehealth.net/make-detox-foot-bath/

      Delete
    2. Thanks Lisa, I took a look at this site. The main difference between this footbath and the Rebuilder is that there are pulses of electricity that can be increased to a theraputic level. Might be worth experimenting with this simple, inexpensive version, to see if it helps But I believe the pulses cause the muscles in the legs to twich, which, in turn encourages circulation.

      Delete
    3. The Rebuilder is what CAUSED my erythromelalgia!! I was trying to treat a traumatic neuropathy in one leg. The Rebuilder is NOT an FDA-approved device.

      Delete
  59. I have burning dark red, purplish burning on the soles of my feet. I must wear padded shoes and padded socks. Some days I can hardly walk. The same redness comes and goes on my arms and feet. It is always present on my face. I have seen 11 specialists since July 2013. I am currently being treated with Methotrexate injections and Cellcept as I have been told it may be related to my Sjogren's Syndrome. A biopsy on the arm showed possible Erythromelalgia. Nothing has helped with the pain so far. I am getting ready for testing for Autonomic nervous System Disorder. I really need suggestions for my foot pain.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Hi Matt I have this condition as well - and have lived with this painful and embarrassing condition for as long as I can remember- I have not be officially diagnosed. My primary Dr. Gave me water pills and blamed it on salt. I am very frustrated like most people. Did you ever consider bringing you wife on that Dr.s Tv show? I know they bring people on do discuss rare disorders-- If I was brave enough I would go on--Maybe this is something your wife would consider? http://www.thedoctorstv.com/ -- Its nice to know I am not suffering alone- thank you. Gina

    ReplyDelete
  61. Hi everyone. Sitting right now with burning bright red feet and going out of my mind with pain! The flares occur regularly every evening and get worse when I get into bed. Had this for about 4 years now and after several misdiagnoses i know now that I def have this horrible condition as I have all the symptoms! Have been searching the web for some help so very glad to find your blog too, Matt. Will continue visiting and if I find anything that helps, will let you all know. At the moment the only relief is from a "Chillow" pillow (can be purchased online) which is a cooling pad and I have that at the end of the bed and rest my feet on it at night. Helps a little.
    Was wondering if this is predominantly a female condition??? Does anyone know?

    ReplyDelete
  62. Has anyone signed up to be part of DNA test group for SC9NA gene tied to EM?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Hi Matt, have you tried Lidocaine through IV and oral Mexiletine? It seems to have helped a few.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We have not tried either of these but we will take a closer look. Thanks!

      Delete
  64. Hi Matt, I believe this is the first post I've ever made to a blog! I was diagnosed with EM in Aug. 2013 by a doctor at the Mayo Clinic. I diagnosed myself first and went there for confirmation. Dr. Davis started me a lipoderm cream consisting of 0.5% ketamine and 1.0% amitriptilene (sp?). I only use it at night tho can use it up to 3 times per day. It has helped - sometimes more than others. I had a parathyroidectomy (high calcium-primary hyperparathyroidism) and am still wondering if these things are related. I think there are still parathyroid issues we're just not sure which direction it is moving yet. Good Luck! It's still not easy during the day tho I'm sleeping better most nights. I wish you all the best!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for posting. I can only speculate that there is possibly some correlation here. Thanks and hopefully one day we will have a cure!

      Delete
    2. I've been going to a dermatologist at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN for 2 years. He prescribed a compounded cream of Amitriptyline & Ketamine in a Vanicream base and Lidoderm pain patches. Any compounding pharmacy can make this cream. If you need more information, please advise. The best advice I can give your wife is avoid flares as much as possible. When possible don't try to work through them. Take the time to put your feet up in a cooler environment when the feet flare. Exercise, physical activity and showers are most tolerable in the a.m. SANDALS are a must. Make a list of all the things you can still do despite this horrible disease. Fully Rely On God! Seek counseling if the EM wears you down emotionally.

      Delete
  65. I am 51 years old and have suffered with EM for seven years - possibly fifteen if you a count "red scrotem" which I am learning is a close cousin of EM. I was diagnosed as having diabetes at the same time as my EM symptoms started and it is highly possible my diabetes caused my EM but nobody will ever know. I have all the common symptoms and I have tried many of the common treatments including medical and naturopath. I also suffer terrible rapid muscle twitching in my legs 24/7 that has on occasion made its way into my upper torso. Can anyone advise me if that is a known/common/rare side affect of EM. Thanking every caring individual that responds.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wish I had an answer for you, but will keep everyone posted if we find anything... have you seen the Facebook support groups? https://www.facebook.com/groups/EMExchange/
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/48920739782/

      Delete
  66. Hello, I would urge you to try compression stockings (with the fingers included). They are not cheep, but I know this will help her. Compression stockings remove blood pressure from legs and hence greatly decrease the pain. But most importantly, she should wear compression stockings so she can keep her feet warm. I know she has a need to cool them down due to burning sensation, but this only deepens the problem, cold damages the tissue and pain becomes even more present in the long run.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She uses compression stockings, but not the one's with the toes... I think she is scared to death to put anything over her toes at this point and sadly she does keep a fan blowing on her feet a lot, so they are either freezing cold or super hot....

      Delete
  67. Hi Matt! I am also diagnosed with EM and I seem to find some 'clues' to get better myself. It is possible that I do not have EM, or it is possible that I have actually found something. I have shared information on the forum of livingwitherythromelalgia, but it seems to be very difficult to talk about it openly... If you are interested in my ideas, please let me know if I can send you a private message! Regards, Marlous

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hi Matt! I am also diagnosed with EM and I seem to find some 'clues' to get better myself. It is possible that I do not have EM, or it is possible that I have actually found something. I have shared information on the forum of livingwitherythromelalgia, but it seems to be very difficult to talk about it openly... If you are interested in my ideas, please let me know if I can send you a private message! Regards, Marlous

    ReplyDelete
  69. I've been around the learning curve on this and I've been told by all the doc's I've been in touch with that Mark Davis, MD, at the Mayo Clinic is considered to be the best in the country regarding treating Erythromelalgia.

    There are a few runner-ups, and they are in the east. I'm lucky to live in the San Francisco Bay Area and the climate here is well suited for this type of condition.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Hi, Matt and All,

    I just wanted to pop in again to confirm that my EM problem has gone away for the most part by cleansing my liver and gallbladder. If it can help anyone, there you go!

    Maria :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What method did you use for your cleanse?

      Delete
    2. Matt, I am in the medical profession and suffer from a primary condition that also triggers erythromelalgia(EM). I have found that it's easier to prevent flare ups than to treat them. I take extra supplements of magnesium (known to help EM), calcium and potassium, daily. You can find low dose mineral supplements over the counter but check with her doctor first to make sure that her kidneys are healthy enough to process the extra minerals, safely. I find that my immune system is also hyperactive at times and I treat inflammation/swelling with anti-inflammatory drugs, called NSAIDS. I also take anti-histamine medication at night to prevent what seems to a tendency towards allergies. Hope this helps.

      Delete
    3. Thanks for the input. She tried magnesium in the past and it seemed to make her worse... though for the first few weeks it seemed to help... then it made her worse. What is your primary condition?

      Delete
  71. Are the symptoms of EM similar to those of excess radiation ? (i.e. gamma rays etc)

    ReplyDelete